General: Are the Judges Biased?

Submitted by miss_chaos on 24 September, 2006 - 10:01pm

I'm fairly sure I can't be the first to notice this, but the judges are really really pushing some singers this year, and bagging others. The judges are supposed to help choose New Zealand's Idol, so why do I (and pretty much everyone, including most of this website it seems), disagree with them all of the time? There's an agenda here.

Now that Kali's gone, I'll

Now that Kali's gone, I'll be interested to see who the judges come down like a ton of bricks on.

I jjust observe these

I jjust observe these things, its probably because ive studied papers which go into race

Read all this and found it

Read all this and found it very interesting - with so many people strongly for or against the judges!

I've always respected Frankie and his credibility to be a judge.  He generally gives criticism of what he didn't think went too well, and says what he did like, and then goes on to advise what should  be done to improve performances.  Even the best has something that can be improved on in the future, or something they should watch doesn't happen.  A lot of his comments are just to do that, usually not to put someone down because he's given constructive advice, but to help them get even better. He can see future potential.

Never thought Megan had enough experience to judge others and advise them.  She sees to want to impress and stand out, and will say what she thinks will get a response at the time.

Stables does like someone or not like them on their performance, but doesn't actually say what he didn't like or should be done to improve in his opinion. Somethimes it's hard to understand exactly what he is saying about them.

On saying this, it does certainly look like than Kali is not liked by them whatever she does.  Like it's been decided she's not right for this competitiion - being from a theatrical background, and it's made clear every week. However good she may sing or perform, her actual singing is rarely commented on. 

Well they are biased, Megan

Well they are biased, Megan is a racist that favors dark people over white people  - I noticed that in auditions. And, remember there had to be another idol to replace the pregnant one and fairly it should have been bergette as she just missed out and she went back a couple of eliminations to choose that other chick.

put the race card away man

:puzzled: put the race card away man

I agree with that!  Not

I agree with that!  Not impressed with that being given as the reason for the way people judge or vote! Or something to be used for or against a contestant.

Even on here, there's only ever been the odd few people over the years that bring that up!

People generally like someone because of their talent and the way they come across - not because of their race!

Wow that's a pretty strong

Wow that's a pretty strong statement. I found her choices pretty inconsistent in the audition rounds but it didn't seem to have anything to do with skin colour.

stylish seems to have a

stylish seems to have a thing for racism. See the thread where Admin posted the video of True Bliss.

Dad got so angry about

Dad got so angry about Stables' useless comments the other night that he emailed the producers :D

Judging any competition is a

Judging any competition is a difficult enough job with each and everyone of us knowing that our favorite is the best performer. Anything a judge says in criticism is regarded as sour grapes or favoring one of the others.

 I must agree that this years crop of potentials is far from perfect but isnt that what entertainment is all about. I cringe at the missed cues and off key notes, but, how would I sound under the pressure of perfoming in front of a live tv audience. Not much better than most of you commentators I would warrant.

To say Frankie should not be a judge couldnt be more wrong as he has had a strong career in New Zealand entertainment field probably for many years before most of you were born. Megan has admittedly had a shorter one but never the less has had one. (more than most of you detractors) Stables works in the industry every day and has hands on knowledge of what the music industry looks for and wants.

I dont believe there is a single top ten finalist that I would pay good money to buy a CD of this year but I still watch the show for the entertainment value as everyone should.  Roll on Idol 4.

It is interesting how some

It is interesting how some of you are so sure that none of us 'detractables' as you put it Aids, has had anyhing to do with the music industry. You don`t know most of us personally so really how would you know? It seems it is YOU who are being judgemental without cause. Personally, I agree with the others who say these judges are rude and insensitive unnecessarily. I have judged a number of large entertainment competitions around the country and so I can say that there are more respectful, diplomatic and tactful ways of critiquing or letting an enthusiastic young singer down gently, without being rude and demoralising in front of the whole of the country on national television.If a judge is not capable of respecting fellow entertainers then they ought not to be there in those seats. :-(

Sounds like you have more

Sounds like you have more faith in the judges than you do of the Idols, and I think that's totally hypocritical. Pointing waggly fingers "well they've done more in the business than you have so who are you to criticise them".. you watch the show yet you don't particularly care for anyone still left in the competition. Why would you want Idol 4 to "roll on", given that it will be more of the same?

 Biased or calling it as

 Biased or calling it as they see it ? I think it may be the voting public are biased.  It is not the Judges who should be being critiqued it is the performance of the idols.  I am willing to bet that most who vote don't give a toss how well their fave idol performs they are going to vote form them anyway.  I suspect the better potential idols will continue to get the boot from the public based purely on what the judges say .... shame really 

Everything said here is

Everything said here is completely true. The judges are an embarrasment this year, and are actually bagging the show itself by going on about how "bad" everyone is.

A suggestion for all of you who feel ripped off by this scam ... do what I now do. 

I stopped watching the show weeks ago because of how ghastly the judges come across (arrogant, rude and highly offensive).  I merely visit the "official" website and watch the weekly video clips which gives me enough idea of how they are singing withOUT having to put up with the judges juvenile (and in my opinion completely unprofessional) behaviour.

As the whole series this year feels so inferior to previous years on many different levels (where is the "behind the scenes" stuff???!!!), those clips are quite enough to keep me up with what is happening, and I most definately do NOT vote.  Each vote simply lines the pockets of the producers and gives them more reason to carry on the way they are going!

So stop getting angry about those has-been judges, and stop watching the show!!!  - Your life will be so much more pleasant :-)

it is always Kali and Ben

it is always Kali and Ben the judges pick on. I feel sorry for the two. I used to like Frankie and Megan was my rock but they have changed my opinions about them. All they point out for Kali is that she is not what we looking for. How wrong are they. Kali you are awesome and Ben you are my idol. I will support you both till the end. All I can say is take what the judges say and then laugh it off. You both need to give them the performances they havent seen. Blow them away. And now Stables. How did they choose him as a judge. in his very own words "it is not half ass but full ass" He is the one that everyone hates.tell him to go back to Buttons and stay with her. Stables isnt very stable lol.Keep up what you two are doing Kali and Ben 

well they wouldnt need to

well they wouldnt need to "pick" on them if they only just sing in tune once in a while!

Kali is a really good

Kali is a really good singer, and she does choose the right song choice. The judges should do what they are doing to Kali- to the last 5 contestants of Idol and Toni should of stayed and all Ben did basically dancing around and was not singing that well anyway. Plus they need to take Stables out of the jugdes becase he says the most random things and people do not understand what he is saying

I seriously dont think the

I seriously dont think the judges know what their doing, they tried to drum up support for Becks by bagging her to death and it backfired big time. Now their trying the same thing on Kali actually wanting her to go and it's having the opposite effect because she's now the underdog and we all know how kiwi's love them...

I think what may be

I think what may be happening is that the voters are angry at the judges, so to get back at them they are voting in the opposite direction of what the judges suggest! eg: They loved Becks and went on and on about it, so no ones votes for her and shes eliminated!, judges don't like Kali, so everyone votes for Kali and she stays in!!! Contestants lose out, but the judges are being horrible this year and they need to be put in there place!!! I think the NZ Idol voters might just being doing that!! 

Which is a bit of a shame in

Which is a bit of a shame in some ways, cause at the end of the competition, we'll be left with someone who can't actually sing, let alone record a whole album, decent enough to sell :( And the third NZ Idol will disappear probably quicker than the first two :(

Its a huge shame!!!! Cause I

Its a huge shame!!!! Cause I think the judges & producers have lost sight of the goal that is NZ Idol. And the ONLY people that get lost in the polictics of idol is the contestants. It really is a huge shame. I feel for the contestants!

... and I reckon that

... and I reckon that backfired on them too, cause I reckon they would have been hoping it was actually BEN that left last night, and not Toni :|

Yeah I know, but I also

Yeah I know, but I also think Toni's voters were complacent because most of the attention was on comments made to the other Idols.  And if the judges kept their traps shut Kali may have been in the bottom 2...

What you are forgetting

What you are forgetting Rogue is that Kali never deserved to be in the bottom two at any stage while we still have singers in the comp who simply cannot sing!!  Toni should not have gone but Ben should have.... weeks ago

Yes but this isn't about

Yes but this isn't about what Kali deserves or any of the idols for that matter.  It's what happens when you put that sort power in the public's hands, things are just not going to play out as you think they should because that decision isn't yours alone to make.

And dont think I'm wishing Kali was gone, but if it wasnt for the judges bagging her she wouldn't have acquired that extra support.  And without those votes she probably would have been eliminated by now...

yea i totally agree with

yea i totally agree with that

Chaos is so right!! 

Chaos is so right!!  Frankie has been completely biased against anyone from a theatre background right from the start.  Kali was correct in what she said on the show tonight.  Frankie never gives feedback on her vocal performance as he can't pick holes in someone who consistently, every week, sings in tune.  Of course it would kill him to acknowledge that fact and instead he picks on anything else he can think of and always falls back on his standard "you're too theatrical."  Especially loved that one in the context of Elton John (you'd be hard pressed to find a more theatrical performer than Elton!!).  Then to make matters worse he goes on to completely forgive and gush over performers who consistently miss their notes, eg Indira and especially Ben. (If anyone was watching the idols on 'What Now' Indira and Ben couldn't sing a nusery rhyme in tune either unfortunately).

Another priceless comment was in regards to 'Sway' not being a "commercial choice,' try telling that to Michael Buble, who has had an extremely successful career, (even more so than Frankie Stevens), and the Pussycat Dolls who have had a recent hit with that very song!

Megan comes across as a jealous, nasty person.  It is so obvious that she has nothing constructive to say in regards to the craft and technique of singing as she knows nothing about it, has never had a career of her own which only leaves her able to comment on the idols appearance and nothing else of any substance at all.  I'd love to see Megan in a sing-off against  trained singers like Kali or Bex, they would wipe the floor with her and she knows it and personally I think that is her problem.  Her comments to Kali tonight re "stunted growth" were so wrong, nasty and uncalled for.  You only have to look back over the past weeks to see how Kali has managed to grow in confidence every week and has managed to remain gracious, pleasant and professional at all times in spite of the constant unfair and blatantly predjudiced comments heaped on her week after week.

Ironically Stables has at least been an honest musical idiot from the start and he hasn't altered in my estimation throughout the competition.  Megan I always knew would be a very weak judge due to her complete lack of any credibilty as a performer or musician but Frankie is the biggest shock.  My opinion of him has plummeted over the past six weeks.  He is smug, arrogant, biased and not providing constructive feedback for any of the idols at all.

All of the kids on the idol stage going through this process deserve to be respected first and foremost as human beings, we don't need a "love-fest" but if these judges think for one minute that they have given anything remotely resembling supportive, constructive, feed-back that would be of any use at all to a young performer in the industry then they are sadly mistaken!!

From week to week the judges have changed their minds, contradicted themselves, and pushed their favourites.  Have said "do emote" to one contestant and "don't emote" to the next, "tell the story" to one contestant while the next minute saying "don't be so theatrical" to another.

This show is a farce as are the performances of the judges, the only honest thing about this show is the idols themselves who get on the stage every week and give it their best shot!!!

My picks, for top idols, would be Matt and Kali.  They are the only two who have consistently turned in good performances, sung in tune!!!!  And with style and professionalism.

I agree with some of your

I agree with some of your comments also theatrefan.Moreso with the way judges comment to these young performers. There are better ways to ' constructively' criticise them on their performance, without demoralising them or damaging their spirit. So they may not make IDOL, but let`s not forget they obviously love singing and must want to go on singing.The judges don`t have to kill their enthusiasm and spirit before they have even had a chance at becoming a star in their own right, with or without IDOL.This is only a competition after all and is no cause for such damaging remarks as what comes forth out of those 'so-called' judges big mouths. Constructive criticism goes a long way to helping young performers further their singing carreers.They need support and mentoring. Instead they have received nothing but cruel barbs that are far better suited for ' seasoned' performers who have been trying to succeed in the music industry for years (LIKE MEGAN) but have never succeeded.These are the ones that deserve to be rudely put in the picture not the newbies just starting out.

Nothing surprises me about Megan either. She was a failure and sits there like she is a big star. What a joke she is.Ridiculous chosing her to be a judge of all things.You need credibility to be a judge and she certainly doesn`t have that.The only thing she has going for her is she is being married to a good rugby player and having a fancy ' hairdo' each week. End of!

Frankie........well like the other two ' so-called' judges, I would like to hear him singing in the different genres and when I have finished laughing my butt off I would 'SLAM' his LIMITED performance and put him back in his place where he belongs. He is a ' has-been' who can only sing ballads successfully and nothing else. Megan`s singing??? Let`s not go there ;-)  It`s laughable! As for Staples?  Well! At least he seems to be a straight shooter and does not run with the wolves although his lack of respect is also concerning.

Because they know the performers cannot ' respond' along the same lines as they dish out, they abuse their position.

Yep these judges are not fit to be there due to total lack of respect and credibility. Bottom line? THEY LACK PROFESSIONALISM yet were chosen to judge for it.They would be far better off judging a baby competition. At least the babies wouldnt have to try and listen to their crapp and they have something in common..... both babies and judges ' dribble' alot :-).

**I notice Frankies ' favourite' Aroha is STILL THERE!

Hence my nic ;-) 

I'm sorry - reading your

I'm sorry - reading your thread, you're actually sounding JUST like people were saying the judges sounded like on Sunday night! ;)

Wow BIMI this is the second

Wow BIMI this is the second forum I have come into and found you personally attacking JUDGE. It is a good thing he canot be bothered responding to these attacks. You did the same thing in another forum. It seems you have a dislike for someone you know absolutely nothing about by the looks. Good grief leave him alone and comment on the idols like the rest of us are trying to do :-( 

Wow BIMI this is the second

Wow BIMI this is the second forum I have come into and found you personally attacking JUDGE. It is a good thing he canot be bothered responding to these attacks. You did the same thing in another forum. It seems you have a dislike for someone you know absolutely nothing about by the looks. Good grief leave him alone and comment on the idols like the rest of us are trying to do :-( 

ROFLMAO you must be a

ROFLMAO

you must be a newbie...

       hi Critic Yes I

:-(       hi Critic Yes I am.

Gotta love em

Gotta love em

lolololol classic

lolololol classic :D

I agree with some of your

I agree with some of your comments and have my own little conspiracy theory going! I'm wondering if NZ idol voters are getting so ticked off with the judges that they may now be voting to piss of the judges! eg: Kali. Clearly the judges don't rate her! So to 'get-back' at the judges, NZ idol voters vote to keep her there, and in turn REALLY annoying the judges!!! Im not saying this is the right way to go about it cause obviously the people that lose out are the contestants. But the last few weeks elimination shows have been strange, and we are left with a very WEAK top5! Perhaps we should stop voting all together and teach the judges & the producers of the show a lesson!

I couldn't give a toss about

I couldn't give a toss about annoying the judges.  Who they rate has become completely irrelevant as they have shown themselves to be no judges of vocal ability anyway.  The top ten is weak because the judges have week after week talked up and encouraged the likes of Ben (who really cannot hold a tune, "cute" or not) and Indira, who although she has some excellent natural ability has no control over her voice and needs some proper training. 

They bagged Bex for being 'theatrical' and we lost her, now what they are getting is a backlash for their endless and blatant unfairness.  Kali and Matt have been consistent performers yet Kali is bagged for being 'theatrical' while Matt is bagged for being safe yet the judges do not do anything to create an environment where the idols can try things out and explore what they can do.  Kali and Matt would make a great top two, Toni should not have gone before Ben, Aroha has a great voice but is lacking in the performance department, the whole thing is a big joke now!!!  Almost as big a joke as Megan's non-existent career

Almost as big a joke as your

Almost as big a joke as your comments you mean.

The only surprises in Idol so far have been that performers have actually been punished for bad performances by being in the Bottom 2 and sometimes eliminated.

I don't vote, I missed the first three rounds of the Top 10, but while my money was on Becks and Indira for the Top 3 I still picked them for the Bottom 2 in Elton John week. Why? Because they bombed that night and paid the price. Same thing happened with Ben this week. A crap vocal performance and he's in the Bottom 2.

I think it's refreshing that performers are being judged by the public on their merits.

No they haven't.  Unless

No they haven't.  Unless you are hearing impaired you must have heard the endless out of tune singing from numerous idols who don't show up in the bottom two and are further rewarded with gushy comments from the judges.  A large proportion of the voting public is made up of a huge number of young teen girls who keep the likes of Ben in the comp based on his looks alone, this is not about the merits of any of the singers vocal abilities it's a popularity contest.

I don't always agree with

I don't always agree with the judges.

But neither does the public.

Im not sure how bagging the judges justifies the voting whims of the public.

Besides, at the risk of making the same point twice....ben gave his worse vocal performance and landed in the bottom 2.
What say you?

I couldn't give a toss about

I couldn't give a toss about annoying the judges.  Who they rate has become completely irrelevant as they have shown themselves to be no judges of vocal ability anyway.  The top ten is weak because the judges have week after week talked up and encouraged the likes of Ben (who really cannot hold a tune, "cute" or not) and Indira, who although she has some excellent natural ability has no control over her voice and needs some proper training. 

They bagged Bex for being 'theatrical' and we lost her, now what they are getting is a backlash for their endless and blatant unfairness.  Kali and Matt have been consistent performers yet Kali is bagged for being 'theatrical' while Matt is bagged for being safe yet the judges do not do anything to create an environment where the idols can try things out and explore what they can do.  Kali and Matt would make a great top two, Toni should not have gone before Ben, Aroha has a great voice but is lacking in the performance department, the whole thing is a big joke now!!!  Almost as big a joke as Megan's non-existent career

   Yeah i hav 2 agree the

   Yeah i hav 2 agree the "judging" is CRAP. Frankie and UnStables have limited creds and Megan is probably not exactly in touch with current idol-bopper interest.

But it is really the voting public who will win...and the majority is not always/often right.  My prediction is Matt will "win", but he won't be more than a 5 minute wonder, like previous "winners". Nice voice, but blah blah performances.

Bex, Indira, Toni, Ben, and Kali easily take Matt out with much more engaging performances. But it's probably a shame to c them go through the humiliation of post-Idol Winner nothingness. This is hardly a worthwhile contest.But LOL it sure does provide some much needed entertainment for awhile!!!!!

Dear Miss_chaos,Great Blog.

Dear Miss_chaos,

Great Blog. Obviously you are from the south Island (or maybe i am wrong) but i do think alot of your judgments are very biased, you are a obvious Kali supporter, maybe you even know her closely. Your opinions of the judges, like anyone are influenced heavily by what you think of Kali.

Firstly for anyone who is reading this, accept it, NZ Idol is a business, people make money out of it, like everything else in this world. In order for people to run a sucessful Idol they need to rely on revenue from people voting. Yes it is not fair, but that is how the competition is run, if you dont agree with it, yes we all dont, then dont particpate.

Secondly, Yes maybe we dont have the best Idol judges but we can't expect them to be perfect, they have sifted through thousands of contestants through out NZ in order to find our NZ IDOL. Give them a break. And for any remarks about 'Mr Frankie Stevens', Frankie actually has experience as a musician, he is a great musician and performer. He knows the ins and outs of being a performer and muscian. If anyone has a platform of which to make any musical judgement, well its Frankie.

Third. Kali? What are you talking about? This is NZ Idol, not a audition for some musical?? Kali yes is a great musical/theatre performer, but this is IDOL/pop Idol as much as we dont want to accept it. I was there watching Idol for sunday, out of all of the contestants Kali by far was the least-entertaining performer, and i have held Kali with high esteem so far.BAD song choice, BAD muscianship, she wasn't confident. I mean, Kali doesn't deserve to be our next NZ IDOL, she doesn't even believe in herself, her insecurity is so evident in her interviews, she's always nervous, always apologising, stuttering, we have given her the platform but her insecurity has out-shone her. NZ does not need an insecure Idol, we deserve someone who is confident and does not need to sell her image to try to get  her votes. And we all know that the only reason why she is still in the competition is because she is the last South Island Contestant, Of course South Islanders will vote for her, the last 3 Idol Competitors we were by Aucklanders. Kali doesn't have the package, we all know that.

And i dont know why you refer to the judges always slamming the contestants. The music industry is full of criticism. If you cannot handle the criticism, then obviously you are not made for this arena. Idol is the perfect place to mould any musician in this area, the music industry is a tough industry, i mean look at NZ musicians still talking about 'taking NZ music to the world'..

We need to use our commen sense when choosing Idol. Forget the image (even though it is hard to side step)... it is about the overall package. How well can they sing, how well can they engage the audience in their performance, what is their attitude like, are they confident/or insecure.

Think people... the judges have experience, and they are judges.. .maybe they have been given a platform to make justified judgements.. What kind of experience do you have? Maybe there is a reason why you are the viewer and they are the judges..

HeyI really enjoyed reading

Hey

I really enjoyed reading your comments, so here is my reply.

I'm a South Islander, in fact both Kali Kopae and Steve Broad went to school with me in Invercargill, in the year above me and the same as me repsectively. I do not know Kali personally, but Steve is a good mate who has shared a lot about his Idol experience with me. So therefore I know how this experience affects a person, and the atmosphere surrounding the whole Idol phenomena from a first hand source.

I would just like to point out that I am not a Kali bopper. I am not in the Kali fanclub and I had not voted for her until Sunday night. To be honest, her past performances have been worthy of the bottom 2. I don't have a Kali bias, but she is most the shining example of what I have been trying to say.

That being said, what I DO have a problem with is Kali being humiliated on national television, when she does not necessarily deserve it. What I DO have a problem with is the lack of constructive criticism. The judges are supposed to have credible industry experience, and therefore their comments are supposed to be constrcutive and helpful. The way that they have spoken to Kali in the last few weeks has disgusted me, but only this week did I actually pick up my phone and vote for her. If it was me, I would be completely humiliated and it is to Kali's absolute credit that she has reactedly humbly. When given a chance to reposnd to the judges comments on the results show, Kali has been talked down and interrupted by the judges, when everyone else has been allowed to respond - as we saw with Matt and Aroha.

Trust me, no one wants to go out there and be humiliated every week. Sure there is criticism in the music industry, but most of it isn't being completely humiliated by low blow comments on one of the nations highest rating shows. No-one deserves that. If the comments were constructive they would be fine, but they aren't.

Kali doesn't deserve to be our next NZ IDOL, she doesn't even believe in herself, her insecurity is so evident in her interviews, she's always nervous, always apologising, stuttering, we have given her the platform but her insecurity has out-shone her. NZ does not need an insecure Idol, we deserve someone who is confident and does not need to sell her image to try to get  her votes.

If you went out there and every single week and gave it your all, and then were whipped when there were contestants WORSE than you who were consistently praised that particularly week, then you would start feeling insecure. Kali has been nothing but humble in the face of being consistently picked on by hasbeens. It's difficult to grow in the compeititon when the judges are giving you no constructive feedback. I think your comment here is unjustified, Kali has not been "using her image" to sell votes, there been no evidence of that. I think Kali's humbleness and consistent performances are a credit to her. It only makes you want to imprive every week, and I know for a fact that Steve can back me up here.

I'm not sure what show you were watching on Sunday, but if you honestly think Kali deserves to be there less than Ben and Aroha then I think you are sorely deluded. I voted for Kali becasue I want to give her a chance to leave on a high note, on a performance that gained good comments and that she could feel proud of. Although this season, I don't think the judges will let that happen, and that's very sad.

I don't have any musical experience. I do however, have some idea of what Kali is going through. I might not be there at the judging table, but I'm the one who votes.

yep too true!

yep too true!

Chaos is right on the button

Chaos is right on the button again and is saying exactly the same thing I am.  Whether you are a Kali fan or a Matt fan or Aroha or Ben or whoever isn't relevant in this discussion.  What we are being presented with each week are comments which forgive painfully tuneless singing while at the same time offering no constructive feedback to performers who show true vocal ability.  I am sick of hearing Frankie say "this is idol" what does that mean?? The genres so far have ranged from country to rock to Elton John to the idols own groove yet someone like Kali isn't allowed to perform with any personality at all it seems.  What exactly does he want??  The lack of any consistency must be baffling and unsettling for the performers, (unless they are the judges personal favourites, cos then it doesn't matter if you sing out of tune, you will still be told you are improving each week) I don't know of many people who could retain such personal grace under the kind of pressure Kali has been subjected to.  I sincerely hope this is the last nz idol has we obviously cannot attract a decent calibre of judge to the show and this one has degenerated into a 'frank'ly unpleasant affair!!  Just a thought, interesting that the genre of 'cabaret' was changed to 'pop,' there are a lot of artists out there making an excellent living performing cabaret yet for some reason this was removed.  Is it genuinely a less valid genre in an idol comp than 'country' or 'Elton John' (which was a ridiculous choice in a show dominated by female vocalists) or is it that they didn't want a genre in which the likes of Kali or Bex could shine? hmmm........

Well actually apart from

Well actually apart from Frankie, who unfortunately is a victim of his own predjudices the judges don't have experience. Megan has no career behind her and Stables is no more qualified to judge someones ability as a singer than anyone else who listens to music regularly.  Kali has never hidden that her training was in singing and particulary music theatre. The judges put her in the top 18 knowing that and yet have proceeded to bag her for it throughout the entire series.  Very dishonest I would say.  If you can sing in tune and have a good voice then you can move from genre to genre. It is the judges who are refusing to acknowledge that fact, they simply won't take their blinkers off and incidentally in case you have forgotten they did the same thing to Bex who also had a theatre background.  Frankie bagged her after the Elton night for being "too theatrical" again and then cried foul play when the audience voted her off.

Yes ,Idol is a business, but week after week these judges are incapable of making any constructive comments and the public, thank God, are finally seeing through that.  It's not a matter of being a fan of a particular idol it's simply that the average viewer doesn't enjoy seeing blatant discrimination taking place in front of them week after week.

There are plenty of us out here watching who have had very long careers in the industry and who do know what we are seeing.  We don't have to follow behind the judges like a pack of sheep as we can hear for ourselves quite clearly who can actually hold a tune and who can't.  Tonight the public (and the idols) bit back at the judges lets hope it will make them a little more honest and accountable for them comments over the coming weeks!!

The whole thing feels like a

The whole thing feels like a scam now after reading this and thinking how everything said here is true! :cry:

We're not stoopid!Kali is

We're not stoopid!

Kali is being unfairly used as a cash cow! all the put downs and trash talking her performances and song choice is just manufactured lies purely to get txt/0900 votes up for $$ purposes.

com'on Judges and Producers how about picking on someone like Indira to get $revenue up aye! Kali's had more than her fair share of being the cash cow! Its just not human and this "Kali episode" will stain NZ-Idols reputation forever as being unfair and damed right revenue gluttoning

This is an important, astute

This is an important, astute topic and full credit to Miss_Chaos for bringing this up. Usually in any Idol series, whether it's American Idol, Australian Idol, or NZ Idol with Paul / Fiona / Jackie, it's natural to disagree with them every now and then - but I have to say - for the first time ever in _any_ Idol series - I have to honestly say I detest ALL of the judges, without exception. Their remarks are all over the place. You never quite know what's going to come from their mouths, and that's something I'm not accustomed to. Even with someone like Simon Cowell or Dicko, they are still likeable people despite carrying a roguish persona. But there's something about *all* these judges in NZ Idol - none of them - none - seem to have the personality to really carry an audience with them. I highly doubt you'll ever see enough support for Frankie to start up a Dogg Pound for instance. Because he's so self-absorbed in his "I AM THE JUDGE AND THE REST OF YOU ARE NOT" attitude.

Secondly, you are so right about an agenda existing to knock people off the show. Kali. Look at the elimination show tonight - all of the judges ganged up on her without exception. You can bet, next week the knives will be out for Kali even more so. Even if she can sing AND PERFORM better than at least half the people still remaining in the competition. At this stage of the competition, they should be really pumping Kali up to really turn it on like the star she is, but boy it must be difficult to hold back the tears - it's the old Kiwi knocking syndrome again. Similarly, Aroha was knocked dead by Stables' VERY STUPID tangi comment. Good on her for sticking up for herself and making it known that such idiotic unwitty badly misfired attempts at ridicule SHOULD NOT be tolerated on national television.

All in all, the judges should be ashamed of themselves. All of them. I'm a believer in the Idol concept and I will keep watching because I believe in the contestants every week, but I have zero faith in the judges for consistency or tactful constructive criticism. Excellent thread, Miss_Chaos, you're right on the money.

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